Buffalo - New Jersey

To New Jersey:
Tim Connolly
Tony Lydman
Jussi Jokinen
Riley Nash (prospect)
2 mill cash
Year 2: SJ 1, BUF 2, VAN 4, BUF 4, NYI 4
Year 3: LA 3

To Buffalo:
Zach Parise
Brian Rolston
Michael Rupp

Sabres Agree and are happy to add Parise to the organization, but sad to see all those picks go

just so everyone knows Rolston was added in as a cap dump for NJ

Seems like you could have got more for Parise but oh well

Yeah, not worth challenging, but you probably could have pried someone like Oshie off me in a package for Parise.

Not bad at all, I for one have seen much worse.

I think it's a very fair deal...

Sure, Parise is one heck of an excellent hockey player, and he's still young, but his point totals are probably going to take a bit of a hit under Lemaire and his SDHL ratings will probably drop a little bit in the next re-rate.

Connolly, while very injury prone in the NHL, is also incredibly talented, and isn't as injury prone in the SDHL, so he'll continue to have very solid ratings for years.

Lydman is still a good defenceman, though on the downside of his career; Jokinen is also a decent pick-up, but I can't ever see him being more than a third-line player with offensive touch.

Riley Nash is a very good two-way prospect, and the picks and cash are always welcome to an SDHL team.

Maybe NJ could have gotten fewer pieces, but each with more impact, but at the same time, they rid themselves of a terrible contract and bring in good depth and solid pieces. It looks good enough to me.

considering some of the offers i know new jersey was getting for parise im pretty surprised he ended up taking this one. im really quite convinced that this offer was clearly worse than one that would have seen parise end up in my division.

it seems like quite a lot to give up, but not a HORRIBLE deal

I believe looking at this trade.....after some time I can have a say in this.

Here's how I break it down....

Parise = Connoly, Lydman, SJ 1st, BUF 2nd, VAN 4th, BUF 4th, 1 million
Rolston = Jokinen, Nash (p), 1 million
Rupp = LA 3rd, NYI 4th

The picks are good, Parise is an 80, but c'mon people, is an 80 worth your whole team, I doubt it, actually......its impossible, lol.

So, to me the trade is fair, if its not veto'd then its fair.

Hey, my Ovechkin trade got passed, so this one surely will, and a good trade for both teams, nice depth on the Devils, and good first line for the Sabres.

Fair trade.

i am announcing that i am not challenging this deal.

for you see world, this young charmer, philosopher, political thinker, actor
and stern defender of the age of reason and socialism only challenges
unfair deals.

this deal, clearly, is fair. especially in the context of the other deals passed.

and is not context everything?

he who spends time questioning others' integrity only struggles with their own

ok, my two cents...


i think this deal is beyond horrible for new jersey. i know that when i tried to trade for patrick marleau my deal was shot down because it was "parts" for an elite player and this deal strikes me the exact same way, but with one BIG exception; parise is younger, cheaper and better than marleau(in real life). hence he should be worth much more.(editors note: seems like more than one BIG exception)

also of concern is that apparently a key issue for the devils gm was unloading rolston's contract. ok, understandable, but if a team is really that desperate to get rid of an ugly contract like that they can always put the guy on waivers. problem solved. for example, if buffalo were to just waive rolston in this deal they would still be getting a hell of a steal. not to mention that having a new gm trade his prize young up and coming superstar at a discount because he thinks its the only way to get rid of rolston's awful contract is bad for the health of the league and the devils franchise.

i thought this deal would have been challenged already as it has 'new guy veto' written all over it. parise is not on the same level as sid, geno or OV, but he's on, or very near to the level of guys like kovalchuk, gaborik, hossa, heatley, etc. except that, again, parise is both younger and cheaper. does anyone think this would be an acceptable return for any of those players? ok, maybe heatley since everyone hates him now

btw-as for the idea that parise is suddenly going have his numbers killed by playing under lemaire i would look to gaborik's stats to see that there is a bit of a myth in regards to jacques holding back his top offensive guys, especially the wingers.

i want everyone to ask himself what is the attractive piece, or pieces that are going to new jersey in return for their 24yr old 80ov who is signed $2M (3)?

lets break this down: 80ov is elite. that is the cut off. things like attendance and possibly morale(MO) are affected by having 80ov or greater players on your roster.

$2M (3) would be a fantastic contract to sign a good 2nd or 3rd liner to. how 'good'(re:great/amazing) is that contract when it belongs to a 24yr old 80ov?

the 'prize' player in return to new jersey is tim connolly, a 2nd line C who has played an average of 40.25 games the last 4 seasons. maybe riley nash, or the san jose 1st are nice pieces, but thats it. lydman is a solid 31yr old D and jussi jokinen has never scored more than 17g in his nhl career. connolly and lydman have decent sim ratings, but as nhl players they are not even close in stature to zach parise.

my initial thought is to 'new guy veto' this deal, but some of you have spoken up and astoundingly declared this deal to be more or less 'fair'. i'd like to hear a little more from everyone on this deal.

Joe, as a GM, sometimes trading your top player for a more depthful (is that a word?????) team is a good thing. Yes, the Sabres might not have given up a lot in return......not my opinion, but yours and maybe a few other GM's, but the fact is he is getting some good players, a great prospect and some great picks, SJ 1st!!!!

This could set him up for another super star or atleast bring in another young player or two. So, the Devils GM is not thinking what you are Joe, he's saying, heck lets get rid of this contract (rolston) and bring in a bunch of picks, a good centre man, a solid defenceman, great prospect and some cash to sign my players. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it that way. You're just putting a negative tone to your words.

Lemme show you this example.....I traded Alex Ovechkin, the best player in the NHL, top scorer, HE HIMSELF CAN WIN YOU GAMES ALONE. But for the trade, I got rid of a decent defenceman with a CRAP contract, but inreturn got a better defenceman with a CRAPPIER CONTRACT. I got an injury prone forward, Havlat, who can't play more than 30 games, because or some messed up problem (probly drinking), I got a good future forward, Wheeler, and decent winger Ryder who can score a bit and a few cheesy picks. Only good part is the 1st, which is your, aka 22+ spots, almost making it a 2nd, and making your 2nd's a 3rd.

OV = Injured forward, good future, decent winger, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd (BOS picks are too high)
Morris = bigger contract

So, now Joe, if I said it that way, you ripped my off in the Ovechkin trade. Don't judge your tone of vioce to alter someone elses opinion. If you say it the way it is, a fair trade, like our OV one and this Parise one too, then its fine, but don't change the whole trade with your negative talks. Because I just showed you an example with a trade you just did earlier.

IMO, Fair trade

The Hurricanes GM is a wise man...

HurriCanes wrote:

Joe, as a GM, sometimes trading your top player for
a more depthful (is that a word?????) team is a good thing. Yes, the
Sabres might not have given up a lot in return......not my opinion, but
yours and maybe a few other GM's, but the fact is he is getting some
good players, a great prospect and some great picks, SJ 1st!!!!

This
could set him up for another super star or atleast bring in another
young player or two. So, the Devils GM is not thinking what you are
Joe, he's saying, heck lets get rid of this contract (rolston) and
bring in a bunch of picks, a good centre man, a solid defenceman, great
prospect and some cash to sign my players. It makes a lot of sense if
you think about it that way. You're just putting a negative tone to
your words.

Lemme show you this example.....I traded Alex
Ovechkin, the best player in the NHL, top scorer, HE HIMSELF CAN WIN
YOU GAMES ALONE. But for the trade, I got rid of a decent defenceman
with a CRAP contract, but inreturn got a better defenceman with a
CRAPPIER CONTRACT. I got an injury prone forward, Havlat, who can't
play more than 30 games, because or some messed up problem (probly
drinking), I got a good future forward, Wheeler, and decent winger
Ryder who can score a bit and a few cheesy picks. Only good part is the
1st, which is your, aka 22+ spots, almost making it a 2nd, and making
your 2nd's a 3rd.

OV = Injured forward, good future, decent winger, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd (BOS picks are too high)
Morris = bigger contract

So,
now Joe, if I said it that way, you ripped my off in the Ovechkin
trade. Don't judge your tone of vioce to alter someone elses opinion.
If you say it the way it is, a fair trade, like our OV one and this
Parise one too, then its fine, but don't change the whole trade with
your negative talks. Because I just showed you an example with a trade
you just did earlier.

IMO, Fair trade

dan,

i would like to respond to your post point by point, but i think this will do.

the difference in the trade we did is that i gave you 4 good nhl players, who are also good sim players, plus draft picks. in this trade new jersey ends up with two good sim players who are mediocre nhl players and a mediocre sim player who is a below average nhl player, plus draft picks.

one thing you guys need to understand is that while ovechkin may be a vastly superior nhl scorer to someone like parise, they are only seperated by 5pts in that category in the sim. if ovechkin scores 80g next nhl season his scoring will be 99, just like it is now. if parise scores 40g next year he will have 90sc. so you see the sim difference between someone like ovechkin and parise is MUCH smaller than the nhl difference.

in terms of value, parise should be worth as much as kovalchuk. again--80ov, $2M (3).

parise-80ov $2M (3) 94sk, 90du, 99ph, 92pa, 94sc

kovalchuk-80ov $5.5M (2) 93sk, 94du, 92ph, 89pa, 92sc

kovalchuk was traded for a package including brent seabrook, kris versteeg and i forget what else. does anything from buffalo's end look like brent seabrook?

I am not against to get another good player from Buffalo added :-)

Joe, while I agree with you that This is a bad deal for the Devils, it is by no means 'stuff' he is getting in return. Connolly has far mroe talent then anyone you were giving up in the Marleau deal. In fact he has more talent then ayone you gave up in the OV deal. This is a bad trade for the Devils (in fact I had offered more for Parise a few weeks back) but looking at some of the deals that were put through there is no way this should be vetoed.

What sucks the most about this kind of deal for NJ, is that you can get Lydmans anywhere. There are all kinds of Jokinens in this league, and Connellys aren't all that hard to find. Those players do grow on trees, and you can throw a few 2nd rounders and mid-range prospects around and get those guys.

Guys like Parise are VERY hard to obtain. If NJ needed depth, he could have slightly depleted his supply of picks and prospects and picked up players to plug all his holes. But good luck replacing Parise.

Also if Rolston is hard to dump, yeah he could have waived him... or he could have done what Carolina did a few years back. Send Rolston to a team for a cheaper player, and packaged in a nice prospect to make it worth their while.

I did not realize this was a new GM, and I can see if someone wants to challenge on that basis, or if we want to let NJ back out. But if a veteren GM makes this trade, there's no way it should get challenged.

Players with offensive ratings in the 80s and a contract below $3M like Connolly do not grow on trees.
That being said, with the contract he has, Prarise is one of the msot valuable players in this league.

IMO the trade is beyond awful for NJ. I presonnaly would have given much more for Parise if he was put on the block (which I doubt he was).

I can't understand why you would deal a guy like Parise and not obtain a SINGLE prime piece in the deal... let's be honest COnnolly is fine, Lydman is fine, Nash could be fine, the 1st is fine... it's all fine stuff, nothing great.

Now the Ovechkin deal was also bad (Jow stop kidding everyone, it was a BARGAIN for you) but, as Joe stated, Carolina received Havlat, Wheeler (Frolik) and Ryder (Horton) which IMO are all more valuable pieces than any of the pieces in this deal (maybe Ryder and Connolly are on par but i'd still take Ryder)

Anyway, people seem to like this deal for NJ, or not care, I just can't see what makes sense in this deal at all....

The reason that this deal should not be vetoed is not because of value..but more because there were a number of offers on the table...I know this for a fact....and he chose this one...let him deal with whether or not the trade works out.....I mean c'mon I was shot down and told I did not have enough to get him with offers that included M. Hossa or Rick NAsh.....but whatever. Each Gm has the right to chose the course there team will take. The Devils GM has made clear that he values the picks more than players..and that is his chosen course of action so let it play out....now if you ask my opinion on the trade...Connolly is an injury prone player whose career peak will be as a #2 center....Lydman is a fine 3rd D-men....the picks are nice but 3 of them are 4th rd's...Jokinen is a good 3rd liner and the prospect is a good one. So this GM chose quantity over quality...not my thinking ..but hey, to each his own.

Well Said CBJ

If anything CBJ's statment shows that this is an even worse deal if the Devils were offered a deal involving Nash and took this one.

To all of you... what the fuck does it matter?

Is the deal "fair"?

Yes, it is indeed a fair return. May not be a wicked great awesome return, but guess what... the rules clearly state "FAIR".

No challenge, no veto, nothing can be done if the deal is fair.

Did he get a big enough return, whine whine whine. Not your business, not your concern. Did he trade him for useless pieces of shit? No, he got a solid return and more players then he was giving up.

The deal is fair.

If you want to talk about whose e-penis is bigger then the nexts, start a new topic and talk there about it. If a deal got passed you didn't like, you were free to speak up about it. If your deal was shot down by a vote, then maybe you over valued your pieces at the time.

Regardless, unless you're the GM of Buffalo or NJ or unless this deal was so horribly one sided you HAD to say something... you have no say here.

A fair deal, regardless of the return is passable and should be passed.

End of discussion.

Someone's a little grumpy this morning haha.

"You have no say here"
Isn't that the point of a forum? To express one's thoughts?
People are expressing their opinion about something that happened in the league, they are allowed to do so.
Get over it.